[opencms-dev] Flexcache counters
Tim Daschner
timd at thedoleco.com
Wed Mar 24 17:16:47 CET 2010
No you did not offend me. I was only highlighting that your words were
strong. Which means that by labeling something as a bad idea, you are
closing the door on an possibly feasible solution. if you use analytics on
your server, you might have already noticed that almost all analytics
solutions provide their "counters" via javascript. Depending on what you are
counting, it may be a "bad idea" to do counting on the server side before
requests are served. In case of pageviews, until a page is actually served
completely on the browser, it might be a "bad idea" to count it as a
pageview - that is one of the reasons why analytics tools count pageviews
after browsers render them. (additionally, analytics tools may count the
number of images, or number of links on a page and other such info). as for
persistence, many high volume sites prefer to do counters (analytics) after
the page has been served because they dont want any additional performance
in the path of a view viewing the page. Moreover, as your original query
suggested, most high volume sites will cache their pages either in a cache
such as the opencms flexcache or fatwire's (another cms) satellite cache or
something as rudimentary as apache web server's memcache. For them, it is a
"bad idea" to make a network request from the cache layer to the application
layer just for incrementing a counter.
All this is in the interest of good ideas and good discussion and i would
highly recommend to not just ignore it even if it does not ring a bell.
Best,
Tim
On Wed, Mar 24, 2010 at 5:11 AM, Roman Uhlig Maxity.de <
roman.uhlig at maxity.de> wrote:
>
> I'm sorry if I offended you with what I said. It was meant constructive and
> should only raise your awareness that your proposed solution intentionally
> doubles every one of your requests. If that is not a potential problem for
> your server environment or doesn't ring bells at least, then just ignore it.
> ;)
>
> Chuck, we have a similar solution running right now with OpenCms, which
> would basically have to an database update/insert for every request. Through
> buffered database writing (application bean buffer + jdbc bulk insert) every
> 100 requests or so this is not a performance problem at all (at least not
> for the database server).
>
> Roman
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: opencms-dev-bounces at opencms.org [mailto:
> opencms-dev-bounces at opencms.org] Im Auftrag von Chuck Mysak
> Gesendet: Mittwoch, 24. März 2010 08:21
> An: The OpenCms mailing list
> Betreff: Re: [opencms-dev] Flexcache counters
>
>
> Request are not bad ideas. And there are no bad ideas, only problems that
> appear.
>
> The most important problem that arises is the persistence that has to
> happen at the request. For instance, the database that holds these values
> for each page that has to be updated on each request. Or the big hashtable
> (pages, counts) that has to be serialized and persistent between sessions.
> That could bring down the server performance-wise.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Chuck
>
>
> On Wed, Mar 17, 2010 at 6:23 AM, Tim Daschner <timd at thedoleco.com> wrote:
>
>
> those are strong words. But I take your word that those must surely
> be bad ideas for the world you are in. in general, a web request to your
> server is not exactly a bad idea. in general network is cheap and fast.
> again, in general, client side technology is also capable of javascript/ajax
> and such. so i dont see that as a bad idea in general.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 1, 2010 at 5:58 AM, Roman Uhlig Maxity.de <
> roman.uhlig at maxity.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> In your suggestion the Ajax is client sided, so every Ajax
> call creates an additional request, thus doubling the requests to your
> server. Bad idea.
>
> I'd stay pure server sided, e.g. with an application bean or
> something similar.
>
> Roman
>
>
> ________________________________
>
> Von: opencms-dev-bounces at opencms.org [mailto:
> opencms-dev-bounces at opencms.org] Im Auftrag von Tim Daschner
> Gesendet: Freitag, 26. Februar 2010 05:35
>
> An: The OpenCms mailing list
> Betreff: Re: [opencms-dev] Flexcache counters
>
>
> would an ajax call from your html to a servlet work? that
> servlet could count hits to your page and update the html too. just an
> idea.. i would say the code would be trivial too.
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2010 at 9:04 AM, Roman Uhlig Maxity.de <
> roman.uhlig at maxity.de> wrote:
>
>
>
> > find someone who will implement this
>
>
> Hmmm, my planner says NO. ;)
>
> But I'll put it on my open source TODO list, maybe
> there's an unexpected gap between projects. *hope springs eternal*
>
>
> Roman
>
>
> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> Von: opencms-dev-bounces at opencms.org [mailto:
> opencms-dev-bounces at opencms.org] Im Auftrag von Achim Westermann
>
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 23. Februar 2010 15:21
>
> An: The OpenCms mailing list
> Betreff: Re: [opencms-dev] Flexcache counters
>
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> > Tho plain storage of resource access counters in a
> database would not work with OpenCms pages with high load in terms of
> performance (1 insert per hit).
>
> hmmm doubts!
> In a clean website with optimal caching the idea is
> that those insers would only happen for each variation in the cache. OK
> after something
> is published that will happen all over again.
>
> > I.e. we've developed an application bean for that,
> which collects these data, processes and consolidates them and stores them
> as bulk data in a database. Still creates about 20 GB of data per year. ;)
>
> OK, then lets add that requirement too and continue
> to find someone who will implement this for the benefit of being a hero!
>
> kind regards,
>
> Achim
>
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