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Hi Alex,<br>
<br>
I think there is a need for two different mailing lists and
documentation for two type of audences:<br>
<br>
1- For end users and non programmers who wants to create a website,
which youtube videos are great<br>
since it is all through GUI and then a mailing list in case they
have any question.<br>
<br>
2- For developers and programmers who wants to contribute in
extending OpenCMS either<br>
by developing modules or adding functionality to core OpenCMS.<br>
<br>
In a world that every one looking for an easy and fast deployment of
website, lets have the deployment<br>
for end user be the easiest with youtube videos and make sure when
we build a website for customer<br>
they can manage it easy enough otherwise the developer will be doing
most of the parts.<br>
<br>
The other point is continuity of document.<br>
Document should follow some pattern or progress in building a
website to show the user the power and easiness<br>
of OpenCMS in building a website.<br>
<br>
Finally, why not OpenCMS website for the central point of
documentation.<br>
I am looking at other CMS websites, and they all hosting
documentation on their website<br>
and even for youtube or vimero they load the video within their
website.<br>
If Wiki is not convenient, then a tutorial on how to document manage
document in OpenCMS <br>
and setup a place for people to contribute would be the best place
to start.<br>
Then others learn OpenCMS through learning how to document other
stuff.<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Babak<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Babak<br>
<br>
<div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 11/10/2014 8:20 AM, Alexander
Kandzior wrote:<br>
</div>
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<div class="WordSection1">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">Hi all,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">I want to share some points regarding the wiki
and the documentation:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">We (Alkacon) operate the wiki. In the sense
that we run the server and own the domain. This is so since
about 2009.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">About 2 years ago we started to put more effort
in the documentation. The wiki soon proved to be not ideal
because of versioning and other issues. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">This is why we did the documentation of 8.5 /
9.0 as PDF and shipped this together with the distribution.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">Our team did not contribute much more to the
wiki after we started with the PDF version because we simply
do not have the resources to do both.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">With 9.5, we have switched from PDF to HTML
because we found out that the PDF version was not ideal
either. We also greatly increased the resources put into the
documentation in general.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">The 9.5 documentation will be online in a
dedicated website. RTA is before the end of the year
(hopefully by end of November).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">The 9.5 documentation covers both end-user and
developer perspectives. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">I still believe it’s good to have the wiki and
I do not intend to shut it down. We will try to link to the
wiki better from the official sites.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">Any help in the documentation effort is greatly
appreciated. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">Kind Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">Alex.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">-------------------<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">Alexander Kandzior<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">Alkacon Software GmbH - The OpenCms
Experts <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.alkacon.com">http://www.alkacon.com</a> -
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="http://www.opencms.org">http://www.opencms.org</a> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF
1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""
lang="EN-US"> <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org">opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org</a>
[<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="mailto:opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org">mailto:opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org</a>] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>Schliemann, Kai<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, Nov</span><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">ember
10, 2014 2:59 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> The OpenCms mailing list<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [opencms-dev] OpenCms 9.5.0
documentation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Hello,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">1.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">I know about the wiki status. And I agree with
you, that the wiki should be supported by the community
leader. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">2.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Agreed<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoListParagraph"
style="text-indent:-18.0pt;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo2"><!--[if !supportLists]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><span style="mso-list:Ignore">3.<span
style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><!--[endif]--><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Why should other open source communities have
the time to contribute and this one not? We should think
about it as give and take. What I want to say is: I do not
have the time either, but I take the time because I think it
is important…<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Why should Alkacon come up with a solution? We
could do that as well. We all belong to the community. I
don’t want them to do all the work. They already do a lot.
They just have to be ready to accept ideas and support them
as good as they can.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Best regards<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Kai<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">Von:</span></b><span
style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">
<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org">opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org</a>
[<a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="mailto:opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org">mailto:opencms-dev-bounces@opencms.org</a>]
<b>Im Auftrag von </b>Alberto Gallardo<br>
<b>Gesendet:</b> Montag, 10. November 2014 13:28<br>
<b>An:</b> The OpenCms mailing list<br>
<b>Betreff:</b> Re: [opencms-dev] OpenCms 9.5.0
documentation<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Hi again,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">1.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US">Wiki for short howtos and FAQs.
Possibly more developer oriented</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">As I
mentioned, the current wiki is not officially
supported. If the records are accurate, it was made
available by Jan Meier with no official affiliation
(at least, not stated in the wiki) with Alkacon (<a
moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.opencms-wiki.org/index.php?title=OpenCms_Wiki:About&oldid=1498">http://www.opencms-wiki.org/index.php?title=OpenCms_Wiki:About&oldid=1498</a>)
around the 3 November 2006. The wiki states that it
currently belongs to Alkacon Software GmbH, but this
doesn't correspond with Alkacon's official statement
at the OpenCms Days 2014, where Dr. Daniel Seidel
confirmed that the wiki isn't opperated by Alkacon,
nor maintained, and even suggested that the Alkacon
Team don't participate in the Wiki since a long time
(in fact, the last contribution was on the 6th
November 2012: <a moz-do-not-send="true"
href="http://www.opencms-wiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&tagFilter=&contribs=user&target=Alkacon&namespace=&year=&month=-1">http://www.opencms-wiki.org/index.php?title=Special%3AContributions&tagFilter=&contribs=user&target=Alkacon&namespace=&year=&month=-1</a>).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I do like having a wiki, but I
don't feel comfortable contributing and investing
time in a page that is not officially supported by
Alkacon. I don't like either how wild the page has
grown and I dare to doubt about its future
sustainability and scalability.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">2.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">New
documentation on GitHub. Possibly more user
oriented</span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I could attend Daniel's talk, and
I liked how much thinking they have devoted to the
documentation. At the same time, it was clear to me
that to maintain through all documentation the high
standards that they are aming, they won't be able to
quickly react to any pull-request (it is good so).
That is, the community still needs a lean
contribution model to the documentation.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC
1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm
6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">3.</span><span
style="font-size:7.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D">Mailing
list for quick answers</span><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"
style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D"
lang="EN-US"> </span><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Unfortunatelly,
I have the impression that there are very few
OpenCms experts within the user community with
enough time to contribute in this list. Alkacon Team
doesn't look to have enough resources to push this
option either.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">I'm not saying that everything is
lost, neither that any of these options are
unacceptable. Just that I wish that Alkacon takes
all this into consideration and comes up soon with a
solution for supporting the community participation
(e.g. officially supporting the wiki, or providing a
new community-documentation module with lower
standards...).<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Just my
2 cents...<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal">Regards,<br>
<br>
Alberto Gallardo<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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